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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
365
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Posted - 2011.11.16 06:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:If you want changes, you'd likely be better off posting in the test server forum where it might get read by a dev.
Actually, you'd be better off posting them in the most recent POCO thread, rather then burying the feedback in some random S&I forum thread. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
380
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alisarina wrote: I propose after setting them up to be functional, you can upgrade it just like the CC. I will admit I havn't thought this through properly but I want to get it out there before the 29th:
Level: Name: 1 Customs Office (or POCO) 2: Trade Center 3: Trade Hub 4: Outpost (I know the names used, need to come up with a better one) 5: Fortified Trading Hub
What you've described is basically what we said back when the first devblog was announced - make them into POS tower structures with the capability to only anchor select POS arrays/batteries. Make them require less fuel/day then their full-fledged brethren. Or let us anchor POS towers at the planets and anchor a POCO as a battery outside the shield.
The devs basically ignored or glossed over the issue of defenses, repeatedly - probably because they didn't have time to rework the entire POCO concept before the 28th (and it is too much of a "sacred cow" to be pulled completely for a 2-3 month rework). |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
384
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 18:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unfortunately, in a game where you have ships that can deal a lot of damage quickly - no stacking issues involved with applying said damage - and no stacking issues getting everyone close enough to hit the target - you get blobs, bigger blobs and structures with lots of EHP is the only method that works as a counter.
(I'm not sure what the solution is. At least with missiles/torps, you could make it so that existing explosions on the target have a chance of destroying inbound missiles/torps, which would put an upper limit on how much damage you could apply per second due to all of the explosions. But that really doesn't work for hybrids / lasers.) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 05:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
W-space will generally be fine (due to basic mechanics of how w-holes work), and the deeper inside the rabbit hole you go, probably the better. Most of the w-space folks that I know are a very adaptive breed. They'll either figure out some way to protect the existing Interbus COs or draw up plans to have a few POCOs ready to go in case the Interbus COs get blown up or they decide that it's time to get rid of the NPC tax man.
Lo-sec COs / POCOs - I don't see them lasting long. Not unless all of null-sec goes to war and keeps everyone occupied for the next 3-9 months. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 13:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Last time I had a chance to look at these was Nov 18th: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=382233#post382233
Quote:More detailed singularity test server data from this morning, using a hi-sec CO set to a 10% tariff:
P0 - Everything was 0.50 ISK/u for import.
P1 - All 0.05 ISK/u for import except for:
Oxygen - 0.10 import Water - 0.10 import
P2 - all 9.00 ISK/u for import
P3 - all 600 ISK/u for import
P4 - all 50k ISK/u for import.
Are the above values still holding true on Sisi?
No word from the devs other then "our economist is going to look at it". The ratios between the tariffs bear no relationship to the underlying math of how the tiers relate to each other. When I looked at things on Sisi, the ratios between the tiers for the tariffs was as follows:
P0:P1 = 1:10 (absurdly low, even worse then TQ) P0:P2 = 18:1 P0:P3 = 1200:1 P0:P4 = 100000:1
When you look at what is required to make (in units) the different tiers, the tariff rates need to be roughly along the same lines or you get really weird things like the existing P1/P2 tariffs.
P0:P1 ratio is 150:1 P1:P2 ratio is 16:1 (P0:P2 is 2400:1) P2:P3 ratio is between 6.67:1 and 10:1, I tend to just split the diff and go with 8.5:1 (P0:P3 would be 20400:1) P3:P4 ratio varies but is either 12:1 plus a bit of P1, or 18:1, so call it 15:1 (P0:P4 ratio of 306000)
Which - assuming that CCP wants us to pay 100k per P4 exported, gives the following tariffs for hi-sec:
P0: 0.3268 P1: 49 P2: 784 P3: 6667 P4: 100k
Or, if you agree that higher tiers should pay slightly lower tariffs as a reward for doing multi-step on a single planet, then you could adjust those ratios downward at each step by 7%.
P0:P1 = 140:1 P0:P2 = 2100:1 P0:P3 = 16800:1 P0:P4 = 235200:1
P0: 0.4252 P1: 59.50 P2: 893 P3: 7143 P4: 100k |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
395
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 13:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote: I'd say this changes things a lot. POCO income for P1 or P2 extraction planets is now 144mil/BIF or 3.2mil/AIF per month, at 10% taxes. On a busy planet, that should repay the office in a couple months.
Yes, the numbers seem a lot more sensible across the tiers.
(running numbers) Lo-sec PI harvest colonies, figure somewhere between 4-8 BIFs. 50 ISK/u export fee for P1 at 10%. A single BIF outputs 48 times a day, producing 20 units each time. Figure 30.5 days in a month.
1 BIF = 1,464,000/mo export tariffs at the 10% setting.
4 BIFs = 5,856,000/mo 6 BIFs = 8,784,000/mo 8 BIFs = 11,712,000/mo
Which indeed means that lo-sec POCOs for PI harvest planets might be economically viable now. Even if you charge a bit less then the standard 10%. As long as you have 10-12 extraction colonies on the surface of your planet, you can pay off the POCO in about 30-45 days.
Sov Null and W-Space residents would be smart to charge about 3-5% tariffs, which would help the corp coffers and help pay for the POCOs while still letting your residents have a cost advantage over the hi-sec folks who are paying 10% tariffs. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
395
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 13:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Errm, no-one has mentioned Wormholes. Surely now people will be blowing up these custom offices just for the hell of it? Jesus, you get a kill mail for it for christs sake. And what would be the point in spending loads of isk to replace them, when they'd still just be big floating targets for people to blow them up just for the hell of it?
In w-space, the attackers (unless *really* dedicated) will probably not stick around long enough to actually destroy a POCO (due to the reinforce timer). They will probably destroy any Interbus COs as those don't have timers.
(But as with most structures - the only way to keep a structure from being killed is to bring a fleet of defenders. The problem with structure-only defenses is that they are static and the attacker can easily plan out a fleet to neutralize/deal with the defensive modules.)
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
410
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 03:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Assuming that the low-sec P1 harvest colony produces about 4800 P1/day, you'll be paying 50 ISK/u if the POCO is set to 10% for a grand total of about 240k ISK/day in export tariffs.
Which is a lot more then "2000 ISK/day".
(You'd have to charge about 15% and have a dozen users to pay the POCO off within about a month.) |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
420
|
Posted - 2011.12.01 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Note that some people are playing with the markets, buying up low-priced stuff and re-listing at a much higher price. You know, the same thing that happens every time something changes in EVE.
Coolant: about 12k as of a few hours ago http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=9832®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Oxygen: http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=3683®ion_id=10000002&type=sell This is being manipulated in multiple trade hubs. Which is why there are only 3 sell orders in Jita.
Mech Parts: 14k (bit high at the moment) http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=3689®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Enriched Uranium: 15k (also a bit high at the moment) http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=44®ion_id=10000002&type=sell
Those P2s selling at 14-15k? Those are about 20-30% profit margins, even if you bought the inputs. (Naturally, you'll want to verify your math.)
Remember - PI is still a very low-skill required trade with very low barrier of entry. It only takes 3-4 days to train up for CCU4, IPC4 and Planetology 3. Spend about 6.5M ISK on setting up a PI harvest colony, which then outputs anywhere from 2400-3600 units of P1 per day (in hi-sec, 24h cycles, for most things). Even with the 50 ISK/u tariff in hi-sec, you can easily make a decent amount of ISK/day for a new player.
400 ISK/u market = 350 ISK/u net after paying export tax = 3000 units/day @ 350 = 1.05M ISK/day in profit 500 ISK/u market = 1.35M/day 600 ISK/u market = 1.65M/day
Last summer, people were willing to do hi-sec PI harvest planets that were only making 500k-750k per day. Now those same harvest planets are making 2x that. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
435
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 01:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
pmchem wrote: Your solution is basically just to reduce taxes, because that's what the end result would be. Which would re-introduce the gameplay/design problems which taxes are fixing. POCOs are here to stay -- highsec is low risk and therefore should be low reward, as repeatedly stated by the devs. It's time to adjust.
I think that would depend on how much it reduces the taxes. By 10% at level V? Probably not a big deal. A combination of skills + standing that cuts tariffs by 15%? Could be interesting, a reward for keeping high sec status. The skill would have to only apply to NPC-owned COs.
(We already have skills for trade that help reduce the amount of sales tax and broker fees. So it's not outside the spirit of the game. As long as it doesn't reduce the tariffs by more then 15% in total, I don't think it will make a huge impact.) |
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